Imperfect Marketing

Episode 50: Consider Adding an Intern to Your Team

November 10, 2022 Kendra Corman
Imperfect Marketing
Episode 50: Consider Adding an Intern to Your Team
Show Notes Transcript

You may or may not know this...

I teach as adjunct faculty for Rochester University. I LOVE teaching and sharing my knowledge with students!

This week I invited Rebekah Pinchback, the Director of the School of Business at Rochester University, to join me. I loved hearing her perspective on why they rolled out a digital marketing degree program.

We also discuss internships and how they can benefit both the student AND your company! You can bring on an intern, no matter the size of your company.

I will give you two hints about our discussion:

  1. Traditional marketing still plays a significant role in digital marketing.
  2. Rebekah can help you create your intern program!

Click here to access the transcript and follow along

Resources:

Looking to get in contact with Rebekah? Click here!

Learn more about Rochester University

Prioritizing your schedule and other business mistakes

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Looking for ideas for your social media? I have a great free guide that provides 30 days of items you can post.

Get it here.

Kendra Corman 

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing! I am super excited, today I have Rebekah Pinchback. She is the director of the college of business for Rochester University and an assistant professor.  

She teaches mostly marketing, right? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yes. 

Kendra Corman 

Okay, and she's been at Rochester University for over 14 years, so lots of experience there which is great! 

Rebekah Pinchback 

A long time. 

Kendra Corman 

So one of the reasons I asked Rebekah to be on the podcast and a guest today is because of her focus on making sure that students are prepared for jobs in the real world today, especially with marketing.  

So there's a lot of different things that you guys have been doing at RU, and specifically you with your programs and things like that like. You recently launched and debuted a digital marketing degree program. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

We did, yep just this fall! 

Kendra Corman 

So tell me a little bit more about the digital marketing program and why you guys decided that it was important to have? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yeah we're really excited. It feels like, you know we're a small university we have about 1,200 students. And not a lot of universities have digital marketing yet. We are a little bit, you know education's a little slow to catch up sometimes on what's happening in the industry, and so this was a really exciting way for us to kind of get on the front end of really what's happening in our industry.  

And what's funny about it is, I'm finishing a doctoral program right now. I just have to finish my dissertation in marketing. We have not talked about digital marketing at all at the doctoral level and so it really is, it's been neat.  

You know so this falls, the first we've launched our digital marketing classes is this fall. And watching the students come alive, they're so engaged with the material. They are natives in this environment and so I feel like I'm learning alongside of them in a lot of ways, and it's just been really exciting. 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah, no I love it! So I also teach Adjunct faculty there, I've got an integrated marketing communications class right now.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Mm-hmm. 

Kendra Corman 

And you know when we went around and did introductions in this in my class this semester, one of my students said digital marketing. And I said, “so what made you pick digital marketing over traditional marketing?” 

He's like, “well most marketing is digital now, so I just figured it would prepare me better.” 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Sure. 

Kendra Corman 

What are some of the topics that you guys cover in in the course, or in the degree? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

So digital marketing has email marketing, social media marketing, search engine optimization, search engine marketing, viral growth. We still have the traditional marketing courses. It's just less focused on selling.  

I am a little biased in my definition of marketing that I use with my students, in you know, our introductory marketing course is that it is marketing is everything that everyone in an organization does to find, get, and keep customers. And with that definition, everyone at an organization is involved in marketing.  

And so I don't see traditional marketing going away. It's still really important that we deliver value to our customers, and everybody is a part of that value conversation and so I think digital marketing has been exciting. You know it's sexy.  

Students are like “oh I want to take a social media marketing class!”  

Students that are not marketing students want to take social media marketing because it's cool. They engage with social media and so it's just been a fun way I think we're attracting students who maybe wouldn't even have been interested in marketing prior, which I think is great because I don't care what you know.  

This generation, gen z has a real spirit of entrepreneurship. We are seeing it in our prospective students, the current students that are coming to us the number one question that I got asked last year at all of our kind of you know, prospective student career kind of fairs was: what classes do you have in entrepreneurship. 

They want to work for themselves. You know my kids grew up, and we grew up on cartoons. This generation has grown up with YouTubers and influencers. This is who they watch when they have spare time. You know they're on TikTok, and so this is their example for what they want to do in their career, what they want to do in marketing.  

And so it's been a really interesting mix. I said you know, I do believe I'm learning alongside of them, because this is not how I grew up I understand the importance of digital marketing. But I do think there's still some real foundational nuggets in our traditional marketing courses that they need. In conjunction with what they're learning how to you know market to different channels digitally. 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah I definitely agree that I think that there's a big place for traditional marketing. I mean the customer journey is the customer journey. Yes, using different channels but it's still the customer journey and identifying Target Audiences is still identifying target audiences. You just have access to more information about them now. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Right? And you, I mean you teach principals of marketing for us too, and I love teaching that principals class because students come in and when you ask them what their definition of marketing is. Almost every one of them says advertising.  

They look at marketing simply as advertising, and they don't see the competitive quality of it. They don't see, you know, what a critical thinker that you have to be in all the analysis that goes into learning about not just your competition, but your customer, narrowing down that market. And so, it's really fun!  

I actually have my students draw a picture the first day of class. We bring out the crays and the markers and draw marketing. And always, it has something to do with advertising, commercials, social media. And then by the end of class I have them draw a picture and now we've got like all these like, you know, spokes on the wheel of just different parts of marketing that they just never even realized. 

Kendra Corman 

Okay, I'm totally stealing that for mine, when I when I teach it next semester. But I think, no, I think you're right. I think that there's, marketing is part art and part science.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Mm-hmm. 

Kendra Corman 

The art is a very small, very, very small piece of it. So, having just started in the fall with a digital marketing degree. What are you seeing as the impact on the students, like with email marketing and things? Because you know, when I've taught integrated marketing communications in the past, I had to add email marketing because it wasn't in the textbook. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Textbook, right. You know, there is a, one of the things that we're having to do with students is while they are natives of the digital landscape. Socially, like social interaction, is an area of growth for them. It's a little mind boggling, I think for faculty sometimes, to get their heads around that. 

Like, wait a second, you live on your phone and you live in this digital landscape. But communicating and understanding what value, in that value is different for each person, and that you have to tailor your messages. I think that's really where the work is, and that's why I don't think we're ever going to get away from traditional marketing programs.  

Students have to understand that basis and that foundation of: how do we understand our customer and what they want? What is their perception of us? How do we make sure that our brand, you know, is seen the same way across all these different channels?  

That I shouldn't have the same message on Facebook that I'm going to have on TikTok. You know the messaging should be different, and they love talking about, we spend a lot of time talking about generations. And never have I felt so old! When you are like, doing buyer profiles and you're talking about all the different ways that generations relate to messaging. And what they value, how they receive communication, the way that they want to receive marketing. 

But those are really fun conversations to have with students, and it is an area of growth for them. I mean all of us see the world through our own lens. 

And you know, the money right now is in the boomer generation. And so, a lot of the marketing campaigns, when we do simulations with them. You can't just think like a 20 something year old. You are marketing to 50-something-year-olds, and 60-something-year-olds, and 40-something-year-olds.  

And so that's just, there's just a lot of fun in that and I think. It's also creating an environment where we're learning to listen to one another. One of the things that we teach in our program is listening with empathy, and just the idea that we're taking time to really hear what our customer wants. We really know our target market.  

And so those are just those are kind of the fun things that I enjoy doing. The students are the best part of my day and getting to kind of do that with them is just really a delight. 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah no, I definitely love my students. I was very excited; we had a career fair today and so I got to see —three of them came up to me from previous classes. Which I was very excited to see them! I didn't recognize them without masks, because we've been wearing masks for so long — 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Ah, yes. 

Kendra Corman 

— leading up to it so that was fun. But it is interesting to see, you know, as they've grown with their marketing, and what they want to do, and how they've identified where they want to go now.  

Talking about digital Marketing. You know, what kind of information are you receiving from the students as they're applying to internships? Because they're just getting started. Because we just started the program. 

Rebekah Pinchback  

 Yes. 

Kendra Corman  

So they're just getting started into internships and things like that. From the digital marketing standpoint, are you seeing that there's more opportunities for them? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

So this part is really interesting, and I was just sharing with the students, getting them ready for the fair today, that I have in the last, we'll say maybe 4 to 6 weeks, I've been inundated with phone calls from local organizations that are desperate for college students to come help with their social media marketing.  

I think a lot of our—one large company, 5,000 employees—actually said to me I think the people on our marketing team have been here for 100 years, and we no longer can relate to our market. And so this is really exciting for students to feel like “wow I actually have a place!”  

And you know traditionally, I think everyone would say the whole internship experience really is to expose you to what's out there for you know, career opportunities, and then also of course networking.  

But to tell the students that they actually want to hear from you. They want to hear your fresh perspective in your ideas. They know that you're not polished. They know that there's going to be some growth that needs to happen and they're going to help mentor you. 

But really, they want that raw kind of like, uncut version of the student, which is really neat for the student, I think. And so I would say from an industry side, that's what I'm seeing on the industry. They want students because they want their fresh perspective. 

Kendra Corman 

Alright, so I love that people are interested in that their in their new perspective I actually have my integrated marketing communications students currently working on a project because I'm interested in their perspective because it's outreach to college students. So. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Oh neat. 

Kendra Corman 

That's always neat. It's a real-world project that I'm actually working on coming in in January so it's exciting.  

Now let me let me ask you this question about internships, because I think that a lot of business owners and a lot of solopreneurs and entrepreneurs listen to my podcast, based upon what they've told me which is good.  

But I don't necessarily think that everybody understands how an internship should be run. Because back in the day when I was in college—we'll just say way back when—a lot of internships were filing papers and doing administrative tasks.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yeah.  

Kendra Corman 

I mean that's not the way I treat it, but that's also I don't necessarily think the way people should treat it in general. What's the direction that you have for a small business owner entrepreneur that's looking to bring on an intern? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yeah, we've had a lot of conversations with some like local government lately, about growing, even just in the city of Rochester Hills. How do we help? We have a lot of small businesses here. How do we help partner with them?  

Internships are really not on—or even apprenticeships—are not on their radar. It's not something that they're thinking about, and it really is a win-win for the business and for the student in the university, ultimately.  

There of course are internship experiences out there like you suggested, I think. A paralegal, for example. If you're going in to the law firm, yup, you are going to be doing grunt work for sure. Lots of filing, a lot of reading of cases.  

I think for most of our business students, though they've had some really fascinating experiences where folks are bringing them in saying, really for their perspective. Take what you're learning in the classroom, tell me what you see in our organization.  

I mean I always treat this when I have a new employee coming in. It's a real opportunity for me, whether it's an adjunct or a full-time employee to say, tell me where our weak points are. Like I'm not, you know I'm not threatened by hearing the truth. I really want to hear what your perspective is. And I think that's the stance that our organizations take.  

Come in. Show us what you know. You know, of course, sometimes the students are a little bit green and maybe don't have—but one of the things that we do in our internship experience is they're paired with a mentor, and so they will go, for example, for the first week of their internship.  

And then they come back and talk to us about, What was going on? What are you noticing? What are the areas of growth that you need? 

And so then we're also helping them, kind of guide them along as they go. I was just working with an intern who—actually was working for Lifetime—and it was really neat, because they have some national branding that they're doing on social media, but they wanted to do some local.  

And so he's asking me, “I don't know what to do, I've only had two digital marketing classes. What should I do?”  

And so I kind of exposed him to some tools that he could use, and I said show them this buyer profile. It would be a really great experience for you to walk through a buyer profile and really develop, What are the psychographics and demographics of your customer? That was new for the folks at Lifetime and so just those kind of opportunities I think for students. 

So I would encourage anyone that's listening, if you have a small business. Some internships are not paid. Some are paid. Of course, the students want paid internships. But you can pay them at minimum wage level. A lot of our interns are getting paid, you know, around the $12 an hour mark.  

They're doing this for a college credit. It is a requirement of their degree, and the way that we explain it to them is every student should have—they have to have one—at least one internship experience. You should have 2, 3, 4, in your experience. This is your time to really test drive a career and so you know if you look at it that way.  

We've got a lot of students who they understand they're not making as much money as they could other places. But they're getting an invaluable experience that in the end is giving them, you know head and shoulders above the other persons that they're applying against, you know on the other side. 

Kendra Corman 

And I love that lifetime example. I think that that's really insightful. And it helps people because you know, not every entrepreneur has a background—has an MBA, or a background in marketing in any way shape or form — 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Exactly! Oh, go ahead—  

Kendra Corman 

I was going to say they've built a successful business, but not necessarily you know by the by the book. I'll use my air quotes for book. You know, from a traditional standpoint and I think that there's just a lot of opportunity to add in some of that structure here and there. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yes, and working —you saying that reminded me of you know we encourage some cross-discipline. So maybe you are a marketing student, but go work for an accounting firm. Go work for a different organization because that experience is also extremely valuable, as they kind of learn the other side.  

A lot of our—I know of 3 alums right now, I just had one come and speak in my class this week, and she owns her own marketing consulting firm. And she's been doing it for about 15 years. 

She said, “I wish I would have taken accounting classes. You know when I was in school, I didn't take those business core classes and now here I'm having to do my books.”  

And there's so many other pieces to owning your own business and so I think you know, of course we try to take that into account in our business core. Okay, if you're going to be a marketing student. You have to have principals econ, and finance, and management, and accounting. Like there are other courses you need to have but there's a lot of value in that cross-discipline education as well. 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah, no I do like that a lot. So if somebody was interested in looking into starting an internship at their company—you know again ideally it would be paid. If it's not that is an option, I will tell you I do pay my students if they are doing client work. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Okay. 

Kendra Corman 

So if it's work I'm getting paid for, they are paid. And you know again, and I do have you know some unpaid depending on where they're at in their career. And I have had a student that was an intern at one point that decided marketing was not for them. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Sure  

Kendra Corman  

They went down the education path, but that's what it's about. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Absolutely and one area, you know, that we really can partner with—maybe the small business that says I don't really have extra funds, but I really could use some help in marketing. Or non-marketing for that matter, we’ve got a lot of business students. 

So we have an international student population. They're not allowed to work off campus. They're here on student visas, not work visas. And so we have a real gap for international students that are business students that you know need that same experience but aren't allowed to get paid.  

So, I would encourage anybody that's listening, if you think this is something you would like to try, please contact me. We would love to connect you with students and get them in and you know really start a connection. 

Kendra Corman 

So if someone's interested in starting a program or starting an internship, do you recommend that they have a project in mind, or a job description in mind, or? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

So we—both either one. You can come with a full job description and say this is exactly what I need. We also like to believe that we can give you an out of the box internship experience where you tell us, “Hey this is kind of what I'm thinking” or “I really have no idea tell me the kinds of work that your interns do in their internship.”  

And we would love to help with that. There's a lot of, you know, past data that we can share with you. Projects that students have. I had a student this past summer—an international student that worked for me. And he created this amazing data analytics dashboard for me, that blew my mind. Like I really, I just had an access database and I needed some help with it and I wanted a dashboard. And the quality of work that he did just was amazing.  

So if you're looking for something like that, if you're sitting on a bunch of data, or you want to know more. You say, hey I've done all these surveys, or have all this customer information, and how do I get this in a usable format? 

You know, I had him create the dashboard, create me beautiful PowerPoint slides so that I could show it to some of my leaders. Some of the work that we were doing. I mean there's all kinds of things and I would love to brainstorm with you to see how a student could benefit you in your organization. 

Kendra Corman 

And that's great. Because again, I think some people just don't know where to start, and what to do, and what to give. So giving them that guidance I think is really important. And they can think out of the boxes to what they need help with.  

You know, but again thinking about—I always try to put the student first, as to like you know what benefit can I give them? And how can I help them get their next job?  

So I take it from a little different perspective sometimes than other people do because, you know again. I want to make sure that they're prepared and that they get everything out of the internship that they want.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

You have the real gift of mentorship. I mean that! We hope that all of our supervisor internship experiences are that way. That supervisors really do see themselves as a mentor.  

I mean I say this all the time. The students are the best part of my job. They are sponges. They love—you know it's not like high school where yeah, we're forced to learn this stuff. They're in these programs because they're interested. They want a job in this field, and for the most part they're hungry. And it's really exciting to interact with somebody that has that kind of drive and passion and there's no ceiling.  

You know, I've had so many stories where an organization will say, “Man, we just started talking, and then this project turned to this project, and this project —”  

And of course a lot of times, these internships do result in career work when the student graduates. Most of our interns are working in their junior and senior year, so they're kind of close to that point. But there are so many cool projects that students can really help brainstorm. They've got a lot of gifts, and talents, and passion, and I think we don't give them enough credit sometimes. 

Kendra Corman 

So I've had interns from several different colleges and universities in the area. I do have to say, I've had more from Rochester University—even before I was teaching—than any place else. And I've always been very happy with the quality of students that I've gotten, that have worked for me, and the work that they've done. So it's a great program.  

So I encourage anybody that's listening if you want to reach out to Rebekah, definitely do that. Her information will definitely be in the show notes so you can contact her for that. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Well thank you. 

Kendra Corman 

So one other question, so as we're moving forward with marketing. What are some of the cool things that you're testing out with students and showing them? I know, I think you've got a podcast for one of your courses? 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Yes, we just launched. So online classes, here to stay. Covid, you know, we were doing online classes before covid. But a lot of folks evaluated life during covid, and we have a lot of students now that are staying closer to home. They want to do remote learning.  

And so we're just trying to brainstorm how do we engage students in a new way, and stick with the market. Well podcasts are—I listen to podcasts. I mean, when I'm in the car, I'm listening to a podcast so it's better. This is my first semester doing it. So far, the students are loving it. Our interaction with them has been very positive.  

So we're always trying new things. One of the new things that has come with the digital marketing curriculum is simulations. So we have a resource that we've been using and it's so neat. So the students are in a simulation experience where they have a boss bot who gives them assignments to do, and basically they get to make marketing messages and write content as if they were doing it. You know, within the market at an organization.  

The neat thing about the simulation experience is they get immediate feedback. So they get a budget, they're managing it, and they actually work through—they start at an assistant marketing manager, you know, kind of level. Then they're a marketing I think executive, and then a marketing manager.  

So they go through 3 different levels, this boss gives them all their different tasks that they do. But the feedback is what's really valuable for the student. Because they'll submit something and immediately the boss bot comes back and says okay that wouldn't fly you just cost us $10,000, that would offend a lot of people.  

I mean gives them really detailed specific feedback on what they've created. That's new for the classroom, you know to be able to—before that kind of simulation experience would only happen in an internship type program where you're working with somebody who works in the environment. You know, works at an organization.  

And so technology's amazing. There's so many cool things we can do. And so we, I have 3 marketing classes right now that use this simulation tool. And I believe moving forward, we will see this kind of sweep most of our marketing classes because it's just so valuable. 

Kendra Corman 

And I love it I think that—I'd never heard of that. That's very neat because I think they need that feedback, and that information. And they're, you know again, the more real-world situations they're in, the better off they're going to be. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

They, you know, we don't want them to just be textbook smart. I want them to practice, if you were given a budget of $15,000 or $20,000 and this is your target market, how would you use it? And of course they're going to make mistakes, but let's have them make the mistakes in a simulation and not the first time working with a client.  

You know, so it really gives them an opportunity. And they're totally engaged, I mean they are loving this because it doesn't feel fake. It feels real I have this boss. Some of the bosses are harsher than others, and as you kind of go up in your level of seniority in the organization, you know the deadlines come faster. There's more demands on you.  

And so it's just a great way—and of course they've got a mentor or a faculty sitting right next to them saying, “let me help you through this. Let me guide you.” 

Kendra Corman 

No, that's great. That's really, really interesting. And I think that that adds some benefit, because as you were talking about the social interaction holes in this generation. You know again I think that that helps them really understand how to relate to other people too. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

For sure we—the podcast that I'm doing is with it's me and a co-teacher. And his background is philosophy and ethics, and my background is marketing. And so we're teaching an ethics course together and it's been really rich to be able to kind of go back and forth.  

And I'm bringing the business side, but he has taught me so much about being a communicator, and the different kinds of communication. And I think the students are really—we're trying to make it more relatable to them, like this is accessible Information.  

Ethics is not just about me not cooking the books. Because a lot of students would say, and I would say this throughout my business work, “Yeah I'm not going to do that!”  

You know, but what is your personal ethic? And how—one of the conversations we're having right now is, so much marketing is happening right now with Cannabis and the restrictions that exist. And what is your personal ethic?  

What if you were a marketing consultant and you were asked to create a brand or a campaign for a cannabis organization? Would you do it? Why or why not? And let's talk through that. And so it's really neat to be able to have those kind of, you know, we try to bring those trending topics into the classroom because this is what students will be faced with on the other side. 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah, and I mean, yeah, ethics are more than just not cooking the books for sure. You know, I was in a situation where my boss said, “yes —” 

I, we were reviewing promotional products, and he at the time said “yes, I like that one. Ok, but, why don't you send it to my friend who does promotional products and see if they can give us a cheaper rate?” 

I'm like, well they're going to give us a cheaper rate because, you know, they're going to do what they need to do. They're your friend.  

But I'm like, they didn't come to us with this idea. That's not ethical to go to somebody else, because promotional product funders just get paid if you accept their idea. 

You know, if we had placed 5— if we had you know done 5 orders or something like that with that person, then that's a different story. We've been using this for a while. They've been paid for their time, now we can go and more competitively bend it out.  

But when you're looking at the ideas that someone's bringing you, you can't just take them someplace else.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Right. 

Kendra Corman 

And it's very interesting to see some people just aren't aware. They're not trying to be unethical. They just didn't know it wasn't. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Right, right? One of the—I had a guest speaker in class this past week. And one of the things—she owns her own consulting firm—and one of the things she was talking to the students about is, she had to make a decision on whether she takes clients from the same industry.  

Because I'm telling everybody that this is the best, you are the best of the best. Well then can I go over here and, if it's, you know a hair-cutting salon. Can I represent another salon? I mean there's so many facets to think through, and you know we try to prepare students for all of those.  

It is beyond just the, breaking the law, what we—I hope you all I hope you all are being legal in the things that you're doing. But what's your personal ethic and how would you navigate these situations? Because we often don't know until we're faced with them, right? 

Kendra Corman 

Yeah, and they don't always appear to be an ethical situation. So, for my consulting business I have never worked with anybody that competes against one of my other existing clients. And I say that because I work with several nonprofits. They're all nonprofits. But like the same people are not donating to them so they're not competing with each other. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Sure. 

Kendra Corman 

So you've got kids over here. You've got dogs over there, and cats. And then another pile you've got survivors of human trafficking.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Sure. 

Kendra Corman 

And you know again, they're not competing per se for the same grants and the same information. But yeah, I mean it it ends out being at, you know, your own personal ethics and your personal beliefs. 

Because there are people that will work with and specialize in an industry, and work with your competition down the road. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Right. 

Kendra Corman  

You know from my perspective, that's not okay because you're paying for my ideas. But from other people's perspectives, they might like the industry expertise. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Sure. 

Kendra Corman 

And the fact that you work with 7 people that do the same thing. So, you know again with ethics. It's definitely interesting. So I love that you guys teach that.  

All right, so I have one question that I ask all of my marketing expert guests. And that is, what has been your biggest marketing lesson learned? Because the show's called Imperfect Marketing. Marketing is not perfect, so. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

Okay, so I told you a little bit about—so we teach our students about communication styles. And we teach three, kind of in three categories. A noble communicator, a Socratic communicator, and reflective communicator.  

I am a noble communicator through and through. Assertive, direct, loves data. This is the kind of person that would say, “hey can you email me that by five pm?” And then walks away.  

That is my nature, and I made so many mistakes early on by not realizing that. And understanding that if I'm talking to a Socratic person, or a reflective person.  

The reflective person wants everybody to feel good during the conversation, after the conversation. And then your Socratic communicator is more of that kind of thinker out loud. Uses a lot of words, really wants to talk through things.  

And for me, being a noble communicator. It's important—it sounds so coldhearted—like I am not warm and fuzzy by nature. And when you're working with customers—  

I have a real passion for nonprofits, so most of my, even career, has been in nonprofits. And any consulting work that I have done has been with nonprofits. If you are working with a nonprofit, especially if it's a church or somebody in education, they bristle when you call their members or their students clients or customers. 

Like they don't want the business language. And so early on, that's where most of my mistakes were, is well I'm a business person and everybody's your customer. I don't care if you're a church, you still have a brand!  

And you can't communicate with them that way. They don't want to hear about their customer that way, because that sounds cold, and that sounds harsh and impersonal. And so, I think really, I have had to learn how to communicate with people in their language.  

And that doesn't come naturally for me. I really have to work at it. I literally work into my calendar sometimes—this is very transparent vulnerable—but sometimes I have to work in, “hey give attaboys this week! Tell your team what a good job they did!”  

That doesn't come naturally for me. I just like black and white, do what needs to be done, and move on. The world doesn't operate that way. And frankly, if I didn't learn this lesson, I wouldn't have friends, I wouldn't have family and I probably wouldn't have a job. 

Kendra Corman 

Oh that's a great lesson, and I love the vulnerability. I Love scheduling things! We've talked about it in the last podcast episode that you know, prioritize—schedule your priorities don't prioritize your schedule. And putting reminders on like that doesn't it doesn't hurt. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

You have to be intentional. 

 Kendra Corman 

To remind yourself. I had somebody at one of my clients say that they didn't feel like they were appreciated. And I'm like, I feel like it's every other week that you know their boss is acknowledging what they're doing and saying great job.  

But clearly, we're not doing it enough, or more enough, purposefully that you know they're not hearing it. And so I think that there's a there's a lot to say for that, and I think we can all learn to communicate better all the time. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

And knowing the different styles helps. Because maybe that person that doesn't feel—like their perception is that they are not appreciated. Well, they're probably not receiving appreciation in the right way. 

You know for me, I don't need you to tell me what a great job I did. I know I'm doing a great job! What I want to do is, help me take something off my to-do list. If you're my husband, vacuum my floors at home.  

Do something that helps me feel like you know, I'm moving forward in a good direction, I'm getting ahead. I don't need the words, but we have a lot of folks that need the affirmation. And so I think just learning, kind of, what the different languages are. And what people speak really, that has helped me, that has been a career saver for sure. 

Kendra Corman 

No, that's great. And I should rub it in that my husband does all the vacuuming.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

Oh! 

Kendra Corman 

So he's fantastic with that. So I love it I am definitely blessed there. 

Rebekah Pinchback 

I love it. 

Kendra Corman 

Thank you so much Rebekah for joining me. Thank you everybody for tuning into another episode of Imperfect Marketing. We will have plenty of contact information for Rebekah and Rochester University in the show notes.  

Again, I think if you get one thing out of this episode, I think that it is, no matter the size of your business. You can benefit a student and benefit your business and your perspective by bringing on an intern.  

And I would definitely ask you to consider that. If you're not local to the Michigan area here, that's okay! Talk to your local universities, talk to your alma mater and see what they've got that they can do. So that you can help a student get a better feel for what they want to do, and real-world experience.  

Rebekah Pinchback 

I love it. Thank you Kendra!