Imperfect Marketing

Episode 80: The Emotional Side of Delegating

March 16, 2023 Kendra Corman Episode 80
Imperfect Marketing
Episode 80: The Emotional Side of Delegating
Show Notes Transcript

This week I had the pleasure of speaking with Jenny Mitchell, a leadership coach, to better understand the emotional side of delegating and why we struggle with outsourcing.

Complicated emotions surround delegation, and being aware of the ones you struggle with is the first step to recovery.

Fear is ultimately what holds us back from delegating. It could be the fear of not getting the accolades you used to get; it could be the fear of someone not doing it right; it could be the fear of someone doing it better than you would have.

These fears are valid and normal—but working through them is critical! Identify what's holding you back, then delegate so you can focus on adding value.

How do you process the emotional side of delegating? Did you learn something new about yourself in this episode? I'd love to hear from you! Let me know at support@kendracorman.com.

Click here if you'd like to access the transcript and follow along!

Want to learn more about Jenny?

Resources:



Transform Your Communication Strategy with AI

Get my free eBook "Mastering AI in Communications" and learn how to leverage AI to enhance your business communication.

Whether you're looking to boost your content creation, grow your audience, or refine your brand's voice - this book covers practical strategies to integrate AI effectively.

Get Your Copy Here

Discover how the CREATE framework allows you to shape AI tools into allies that save time while amplifying your unique perspective.



Kendra Corman: 

Welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. I am excited today cuz I have Jenny Mitchell. She is an executive coach and fundraising professional who helps not-for-profit leaders change the world one mission at a time. 

She's also the host of Underdog Leadership Podcast, and her love of working with passionate people guided her from a career as a classical pianist into leadership coaching. 

Very interesting!

And she draws on her years as a professional musician and strives to bring creativity. energy and excellence to everything she does. So welcome, Jenny. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Thanks so much for having me!

Kendra Corman: 

I'm so glad that you found some time to talk to me because I'm very excited about our topic.

We're gonna be talking about the emotional aspect of delegating. I love this topic because I say it all the time. We can't do it all. We can't do it all ourselves, so we need to figure out when it's time to outsource or delegate. 

I have several clients that struggle with delegation. So talk to me and help me understand why do we struggle to delegate? 

Jenny Mitchell:

First thoughts. We all know we're supposed to do it, right? That's the funny part, Kendra, is we know we're supposed to do it. 

And I think in my younger years, what I wanna answer that with is a story. When I was younger, I thought I could just bicycle a little faster, and if I just could hustle or become more efficient or more productive, everything would just solve itself.

And then midlife happens and you hit this point where you realize you can no longer add another gear. You just can't bicycle any faster. And so, the question becomes, what do I choose to drop off my desk? 

But we all resist letting go of things. We all like to hold on to things. So why? What is underneath that Kendra?

And what is it about the emotional aspect to it, or the psychology behind it that makes it so difficult for all of us? 

I just wanna own that on myself. Even before the podcast, you and I were talking about some goals that involve delegating for yourself. So I think we need to understand, just on a basic level, there are really only two things people want in the world.

They want hope and they want control. 

They wanna know exactly, they wanna be inspired, but they also wanna make sure that they completely control everything in their environment. And, not realistic. 

We know this, right? But we resist delegating because we still are living in the old narratives, the old experiences, and the old stories.

And what delegating requires us to do is imagine a different future. I'd start off with the conversation there is imagining that it can go well, cuz we've all have great stories about how it didn't go well. Right, Kendra? 

Kendra Corman: 

Oh yeah. No, I definitely have a few of my own. And I've been the person that's been delegated to and it didn't go well.

Yeah. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

So let's, let's unpack a little bit of it psychologically. This is always a kicker. I have a wonderful, I read a book called I forget the name, but it was about how, psychologically, we are still in limbic brain mode. 

We are in old ancestral brain modes and it actually takes three positive interactions to offset one negative interaction. We're hardwired to avoid things. 

Oh my gosh. There might be a jaguar around the corner. So whatever you do, don't go that way. 

You're so much more likely to remember that than that wonderful, beautiful meal you've had around an open fire with. Your colleagues or your teammates. I'm mixing metaphors here, but what the heck, come with me.

And so it helps explain why, when one time it goes badly, we run away and we say we're never doing that again. Right? 

Those old stories are so powerful and we're doing this on a primal level. We don't actually consciously realize it. 

So if your listeners are saying, okay, I've got to address this cuz I can't bicycle any faster, then let's take a look at, you know, what those new lenses might be. And that's always what coaching is about, right?

We continue to do the things we do without any new inputs or knowledge. And what executive coaching does is adds a new lens. Like, how could you think about this differently? 

Just a quick note on coaching cuz I feel like there's a lot of coaches out there and there's a lot of use of that word. To me, Kendra, what coaching is, is co-creating with a coachee.

It's not Jenny Mitchell coming in with all the solutions. Gosh, I wish I was that person. That would be awesome. But it's about supporting someone through their own journey. They are always in charge, and they always have sovereignty over their decision.

Because each of us is born whole. Each of us have amazing ideas, solutions, and so bringing a different lens to delegation, some of the questions I would ask would be like, so if you were able to do this, if you were able to delegate this task, what aspect of control do you lose? What's the fear underneath that?

And also how does that relate to trust with that person that you're working with, that you delegate to? And people kinda look at me like, what? Right? 

Because you do lose control when you aren't actually the person doing it anymore. Have you ever had that experience, where you give something off?

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah, it's a little nerve wracking.

So, I love my content writer. She is an amazing member of my team. I love everything that she does, for the most part. But it isn't always the same way I would do it because I didn't do it. Right? 

So, yeah. I mean, sometimes I struggle with that because it's like, okay, should I edit this? No, it's fine. 

Yes, I might word it a little bit differently, but it's fine. And I really struggle with that. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yeah. Well, when we were talking about how is it an 80% improvement that you can make on it or a 20% improvement? 

So if you're talking pennies on the dollar, if you're talking incremental, tiny little improvements, is that where your most valuable task is?

And I will often ask myself that all the time, is this one of my valuable tasks or is this one of my, I can't let go of it tasks? 

And a good example for me is I can get completely lost in my bookkeeping. Like I have this sort of obsession. 

Oh, I see you nodding. We have to talk about this because I'm not a numbers person, by the way, just to be clear.

And I get in there and I wanna know everything and I wanna understand everything. And it's almost like I create problems. And then I have to follow up with my accountant. 

And I'm not saying don't know your numbers, but let me be clear, I could have saved myself a heck of a lot of time by just asking the questions to the person I trust and having a conversation about it, right?

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah. I have, I've outsourced my bookkeeping. I have a Master of Accounting. I love numbers, but sometimes there's that, I wanna say it's almost like a safety blanket task that we do that we just like to have and to do because it's, it helps us be mindless.

Jenny Mitchell: 

Or distracts, let's call it what it is.

Kendra Corman: 

Distracts. Yeah. There you go. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

It distracts. It's something. The other thing I notice is when it's something you're good at, we love to do those things, but it, when it's something you're not good at, I find that it's, I find it harder to make myself sit down to do it. 

Or you know, my head kind of goes wonky when I get in front of a lot of Excel spreadsheets.

So, let's just take a look. The first thing is this loss of control and the element of trust to the person you need to participate with. And the idea of a big stick, right? When you let go of it, you no longer can have that big stick and you don't take responsibility for it differently. 

In some of our shops, there is also an element of he who knows most win.

So, information I love, you're smiling, information is used as a tool for power and control. And so, information sharing becomes a sort of quid pro quo thing. 

I hate it, but it is a reality. 

So as a leader, I think it's important for you to decide. Are you gonna play into that kind of conversation? Are you gonna be a model for that kind of play?

Or are you actually gonna decide to trust? And trust requires you to let go and take and see what happens. 

So that's first one is loss of control. And the other funny one about it is, the opposite of that, which is the fear of someone doing it better than you, Kendra. 

And I don't know if you've had this experience as an entrepreneur where, you know you're bopping along, you know, you think you've got your decent graphics. You know, I love, I'm like a closet graphic designer, and then I hand it off to someone else to do for me and it comes back and your jaw hits the floor.

You're like, this is gorgeous. And then you realize it's taken them like a quarter of the time, it would've taken you and you're so happy. But part of that is I have to let go of my own ego that I'm really not very good at it. And have you ever had the experience where it comes back and it's stunning?

Kendra Corman: 

Always. So, I usually start, all of my designers know this. I have two, I have one out in California and one based in Ohio. And they actually know, I'm like, so I mocked this up and it looks like junk, but I thought it would help us with direction. 

Because, you know, I actually am, I fully embrace the fact that I cannot do design work at all. And I'm okay with that. 

But no, there, there is a fear of someone coming in and doing things a lot better. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Hello? You have to get over yourself, right? 

And here's the, the next one is, What message are you sending to the people around you when you don't trust them to delegate to them?

So by your insecurities, how are you holding them back from success? 

That's the one that always gets me, cuz I'm one of those people that really believes in kindness and really believes in elevating everyone. And when I stockpile projects, I am sending these subliminal messages to them that I don't trust them with it, or I don't think they're ready and that's actually not what I want to tell them.

So that's kind of like a huge motivator for me to try delegating. And again, when it comes back so beautiful, you're like, oh my gosh, Jenny, get over yourself.

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah, for sure. 

And I mean even, even if you have a small team, if you're trying not to overwhelm them, like I'll always ask my content writer, I'll say, Hey, do you have capacity for this?

Right? Or would you want me to do it? 

Yeah, so I try to like, you know, give the option when I'm worried that I'm going to overwhelm her so that it's not my decision. That's her decision, you know? Same with my designers and things like that. Hey, do you have capacity to, to do this? Because we're on a timeline for whatever reason.

We're always on a timeline. It was always due yesterday.

Jenny Mitchell: 

You must always be on the time timeline in marketing, right? 

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah. It was always due yesterday. Everything. It doesn't matter what it is. 

But I also love the information piece that you talked about. And information is power. I was at, I was the Jeep advertising manager at Chrysler.

Information was power. The more information you had, the more meetings you went to, the more perceived power you had in the organization.

Jenny Mitchell: 

Well, the first thing people say is, well, why do you need to know? 

That's like the gut knee jerk reaction. Right? And remember, there are two kinds of people, and I see this a lot in, with different kinds of clients.

There's the people that need the why, like why are we doing this? What's this tied to? And the explanation. 

And then there are the people that just want the tasks and they just wanna know exactly, and you see it in their emails is how you see it, mostly. There's the extended emails with the explanations or there's like the literally three lines.

Very different vibes that you get from them. And so you've gotta kind of figure out with your team, you know, what kind of profile am I dealing with here too? 

And then the other piece I wanna bring up around the, you know, why don't we do it, is that, I think as women, and I'm gonna generalize here. Or even I just say high performing people, we've often been praised for our doing. 

For the things we've done, for the accomplishments we've accomplished for the check boxes beside things. For the way we always, no matter what, we can pull it through.

Way to go jenny, you're the rockstar, big shiny star.

And usually that's titles and money, right? 

And what, so what I'm asking people to do when we're talking about delegating is the polar opposite of that. Is to be, is to lead, is to trust others to do this stuff that you've gotten all these accolades for.

Like it's pretty dang counterintuitive and that's why I think the emotional aspect, I hope what I'm trying to share here on this podcast is like the light bulb. Like, oh, it makes sense why it's difficult for me. 

Doesn't mean it's impossible, but I've actually been hardwired another way and now that I'm in this leadership place, I need to try something different.

Kendra Corman: 

I think that that's really interesting. One of the things that you're talking about is, yeah, we are promoted, we're rewarded for what we do. We wanna take credit and continue to get that, and now we're sharing the spotlight. 

And as people move up quickly, you struggle with that. Because now where are my accolades coming from?

Jenny Mitchell: 

Right. 

Kendra Corman: 

So let me ask you, let me ask you this question. Cuz I think one you deal with a lot of nonprofit leaders. Budget is tight, resources are limited. Small business owners, same thing. 

I love working with nonprofits. They're one of my favorites because resources are limited, we get to be more creative.

But when we're looking at delegating, Is expense. Expense factors into it, I think in some people's, but is that an excuse or is that real? 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Oh, okay. Is it an excuse or is it real? I think sometimes we get into really boxy thinking when we think of how something's supposed to go. 

So I don't think non non-profits use consultants, to be honest, especially with limited budgets. I think that we, the go-to or the knee jerk and nonprofit is we need a body and we need a body in house. 

And there's a couple problems with that. The first one is that the salary you can offer, you're gonna get the bottom of the barrel who might be really inspired and do amazing.

And if they do, they're gonna leave you after three years, which is fine. We're happy to be that space. 

You also, the other, they have this sort of preset mentality and or they're tied to some kind of a grant cycle. So it's the one that kills me is it's a, it's a three year grant for a person. 

The first year it takes them that long to get up to speed. The second year they're like getting their feet. The third year they're just finally soaring and the money runs out. 

And I just don't think that's a great use of grant money. And so they get into these patterns, you know, we need more admin help. Okay, well, do you need a whole body or could you actually work with a virtual assistant to do repetitive tasks?

We need marketing. We don't know where to start. That's a really overwhelming one for many of them. 

And often they start, I dunno if you find this, but they start very tactical, right? We need social media presence. I'm like, okay, well, but why do you need social media's presence if you have no strategy and no plan for the key messages that you're gonna keep repeating?

Right. I know. If you're giggling away here, it's like, I'm stealing your podcast here.

Kendra Corman: 

No, I'm laughing hysterically because I've had this conversation, this exact conversation three times this week. 

Three times with three different nonprofit organizations. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

And, you know, you gotta love them like they have these wonderful spirits.

I think that's the thing that always brings me back. I have been transitioning more into different sectors and I have a lot of different women leaders. But I do think my heart will always be with these people that do incredible things with zero resources on a shoestring, basically on faith. 

Let's just call it what it is, right? 

And their energy is infectious and that's why we keep coming. But they do lack creativity in how they're going to address a problem. And they actually, and on the flip side, I don't think they use consultants great in the sense of, they'll often do reports. 

Like, I'm a fund, I was a fundraising consultant. I come in, write you a report. I'm sure you write marketing reports and then they take it in and it sits on a shelf and they never touch it again because they actually can't implement it. 

So one of my big beliefs is that if you're working with a consultant, really ask the questions about where the knowledge transfer's gonna happen.

Where are the parts where we get Kendra's ear every Friday, or every second Friday, to walk us through how we did that week or what's going on? Or set us from an accountability perspective forward. 

Because we know that when we have meetings or deadlines or accountability, things get done and it's not for lack of attention, and that that ties into the whole delegating part. Like, how can you outsource a file with clear expectations of what the outcomes are gonna be? 

I don't know about you, but I don't work on an hourly basis. I work on an outcomes basis, right? And to make sure that you are accomplishing the overarching goals that you are responsible for as a leader. 

But you cannot do it. You cannot bicycle any faster. 

And so, another way to think of it. We now manage people rather than managing tasks and files. And that's a big head shift cuz you have no big stick. You have to seek out all these other skills to motivate and inspire these people that work for you. And that's another, that to me is what leadership is, is figuring that out for you.

Kendra Corman: 

It's really interesting. I do like what you're saying because it's something that we really struggle with. 

And I love the point about nonprofits, you know, not using consultants, right? Because I don't think that they do. I mean, for a fraction of a body, you can hire me, and my clients that have hired me hire me to help them out.

And I don't work on an hourly basis either, I work on a project or a retainer basis. And I'm like, here's what we're gonna get done for this. And then usually with my nonprofits, I go above and beyond. And then above and beyond some more. 

Because again, I love their missions and. My husband calls my business every once in a while a not for profit, but he refers to it cuz I do love my nonprofits and that's where my passion is.

But yeah, they struggle with it being outside their organization sometimes because of that loss of control. And sometimes I think that they want people working for them also because I think it's a status thing. The size of the organization. The number of employees. Things like that. 

But it's, some of it's not sustainable and sometimes when you bring in a person to do something, we'll say marketing, they end up, they start focusing on this little narrow area. 

And then it's like, what about the rest of it? Oh, I don't have time for that cuz I'm focusing on making this go really, really well.

And it's like, no, you need different skill sets. You need those skill sets on a fractional basis, so bring in a fractional team that can do it because not one person can do, is good at everything in marketing. 

I've only heard one person tell me that they were good at everything in marketing, but they had that one thing that they were good at. And then they put everything else off because it wasn't easy 

Jenny Mitchell: 

In their wheelhouse. In their wheelhouse. That's right. Yeah. 

It's a very common challenge. And I'm sure there's, you know, I think it's how can we maximize what we have? That's the mindset I'd love for them to come at it with.

And you know, if you're a leader listening and you're thinking, oh, I know I'm holding on to things, I know I'm not doing that service to my mission cuz I've caught some things. 

Or maybe you've been burned in the past by a consultant experience, which I totally, completely understand. Not all consultants are created equal.

You know, but that idea of trusting again. Remember I said the three positives to counteract the one negative. Sort of like hiring, like I don't know how many times I've heard people say, well, I don't wanna just, I'm just not gonna hire for that position because you know, the last person just sucked and it was terrible.

Like that's one data point. Like, I hate to tell you this, but I'm calling you on it, because that's one data point. That doesn't mean the next hire. 

It's like you know that, you know, when you were studying predictables in math just because in this slot there was an a no, doesn't have anything to do with the next slot being a yes or a no, right?

Like they're independent variables. Even though in your head you noticed the narrative you've created. So maybe that's another thing. One of the things I wanted to talk about was what are the anecdotes, what are the things we can use as like the opposite of kryptonite to counteract this emotional aspect of delegating?

And so I think one of them is remembering that your expansion happens first before theirs. So let me explain that. 

You model as a leader. You grow, you try, you trust, and by that behavior, you allow others around you to grow, try and trust things. They're looking to you no matter what you say. The minute you walk in the office, they are watching you for signs.

How does Jenny react to mistakes? Because they're gonna say, cause that's how Jenny's gonna react to my mistakes. So that idea of expansion starts with you and starts with you looking at things differently. 

The second thing is, is taking a quick skills assessment of like, what, what are my high value tasks and what really is just admin, or time sucks, or usually at the senior management level, it's the relationship piece. You're managing files that have relationships that are key, but there's a lot of the heavy lifting in those relationships that you can, you can pass off. 

It could be somebody working with you in partnership with you to help set up meetings, to help follow up with stuff. You don't have to write the, the follow up report or all those good things. Just really taking a look at what your natural skillset is and vice versa. 

By the way, some of our leaders are very introverted and, and don't want to be the face that wanna be included. So making some of those conscious decisions with your team and letting them see there's the V word, your vulnerabilities.

I think that's, that's really another part of this whole delegating. And then you mentioned one that's, that I think is really important, which is the check-in. How are we supposed to know whether this is too much, too little, unless we're checking in? 

And don't assume Kendra, because it's, it's always, it always surprises me how far that on a couple levels, you know, how are you doing?

Was this week a big week? A little week? Like I know you have a lot of files. What's working? 

And then the question I love to ask is, where do you need help? I always try and put that in on my one-on-ones, because without that permission to say things aren't working, I'm not sure all of our junior employees will tell us what's wrong.

What's been your experience on that? 

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah, unless you ask, they don't share. 

It doesn't matter how nice you are about mistakes, cuz I am, I'm a big believer in the fact that this is marketing. And nobody dies. This is not brain surgery. Nobody dies. If there's a typo in a social media post, we can change it.

But it really comes down to Asking and asking those questions, that's gonna get them to answer, and sometimes it might not be, where do you need help? It might be something else, you know? Because I think every person reacts to questions differently. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

And culturally too, right? I've had some there's some cultures that are very formal, right?

Japanese culture for example, and you're not supposed to show weakness. That's a great point. How do you frame the questions to really seek out true answers? 

I'm taking that away from today cuz, you know, we kind of get in our habits too, right? This is how I do it, this is what, how our Friday calls go.

You know, change it up. If you've been leading those one-on-one meetings, invite them to bring you an agenda. Again, that lens, that executive coaching, bringing different perspectives. 

The other one at the, that I thought about was, and, and this is something I've worked on myself a lot, is the ability to be direct.

I think there's a difference between kindness and being nice. So I wanna be a person who's kind. I'm slowly letting go of the nomer of being nice. And I don't mean that I don't wanna be nice, but kindness to me is about being direct, saying what needs to be said or heard in a way that's respectful but doesn't shy away from the crux of the problem. 

And probably I've learned that as being a consultant, cuz sometimes there's tough messages we need to deliver and niceness kind of coats everything and kind of dances around it and kind of veils to what we're talking about. I don't think it does anyone a service anymore.

And so that ability to lean into being direct, knowing that you're coming at it from a place of kindness is one of my big tenets for myself and also for things that I coach with my clients. 

Does that resonate with you? I'm just curious. 

Kendra Corman: 

It does, it does. Because when I was in a leadership group and we were talking about things and they're like, she's like, well, I'm always so direct, but all of my people are, you know, I don't want them to get offended. So I have to end every sentence with a smiley face.

Jenny Mitchell: 

Or exclamation mark.

Kendra Corman: 

Because she's always so direct, she always has to add in the smiley face so that they take it in a nice way. Because otherwise they're like, is she mad at me? 

And it's like, it is, it's a fine line, but sometimes you just need to say it, like direct and straightforward because if they're not getting it, we'll go back to your example on social media about strategy.

I had a conversation with a client about they wanna be on LinkedIn, and I said, okay, what do we want from LinkedIn? What is our goal for being on LinkedIn? 

Well, there's a lot of people on there. 

I'm like, but what do we want them to do? 

Well, we want them to be aware of what we're doing. 

I'm like, okay, are they open to what we're doing?

Because it doesn't relate to their work on a professional platform. 

We're hiring. 

So, getting the word out about hiring something, getting the word out about volunteer opportunities is another, fundraisers at their workplace is another, there's a lot of different things that we could do, but what is it that we're trying to achieve?

And if, you know, and so I just, you know, cut to the chase. Not until we have a strategy. And it was hard to say because it was very direct, and the answer was no. 

And I, my word of the year for 2023 is no. And cuz I never say it because I'm always trying to be nice. But sometimes saying no is actually kinder.

Jenny Mitchell: 

I agree. 

Kendra Corman: 

For me and for them.

Jenny Mitchell: 

So are we doing, 

Kendra Corman: 

I really like how you're talking about that difference. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yeah. Are you making a pinky promise that we're gonna commit to more no's in 2023? 

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah, I think it was, there was a quote that I read just a couple days ago. Oh, Warren Buffet. Successful people say no to almost everything.

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Kendra Corman: 

It's a good thing to keep in mind.

Jenny Mitchell: 

It sure is a good thing. Well, Warren Buffet seems to have done well with that approach. And the other, the other quote I love from Warren is, is he basically says, write down everything you wanna accomplish in your life and scratch off two thirds of it, and then you will achieve the ones you've left, right?

Kendra Corman: 

Yes. No, and that's so much because again, we can't do it all. We have to focus. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yes. So it's so funny, our conversation about emotional delegating has come two ways. 

There's the internal emotional delegating, like, what is it that's most important for me? And then we're talking about how do I outsource or pass on or share the priorities or the workload with the people around me.

And I think the, maybe the final thought about delegation is when they accomplish it, we celebrate them as their wins. I don't need, as a leader, one more "yay Jenny!" 

Especially up the food chain, if you can get visibility up the food chain because that only behooves them to work harder for you and work smarter for you, and to have more confidence to keep taking things on.

And I think that's a really, that is what a true leader does, is build capacity across all of his teams. And not all teams are created equal. Not all people you will get along with. You're gonna have to work harder with certain profiles. That's just the way it is. 

I wish if I, well, if, if everybody in my company, Kendra, looked like me or worked like me, we would have amazing staff meetings. We'd have whiteboards everywhere and then nothing would happen. That's just, I need people to balance out my blue sky with practical. I need people to challenge me on things. 

So, I think the message here is really go back to the beginning and ask yourself, why are you not giving up those files? And take some time to reflect.

Kendra Corman: 

And I think, don't let yourself use excuses. 

So again, cost. Think, get creative. Start thinking about it. Because if like one of the things that we talked about is I'm working on outsourcing my podcast editing because it does take a lot of my time. What could I be doing right instead of that? A lot of different things that we'll hopefully be bringing in revenue, right?

Because I can't necessarily outsource all of the other stuff that I do. I can't outsource the recording cuz you know, hello this is me. But I can't outsource, you know, certain client meetings. I can't outsource, you know, a lot of different things that bring revenue into the business. 

So if I had more time, could I bring in more revenue?

Jenny Mitchell: 

That's a great question. 

Kendra Corman: 

Even if it's an, if it's a play on a cost as an excuse. And I think, I think we have to ask ourselves that question repeatedly. You know, is it an excuse? And really examine why we wanna hold onto it. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

I have a quote that I pulled from a book I'm reading called Ceremony by Brianna Wiest, w i e s t.

And it, I felt it really encapsulated some of the things I wanted to talk about. And it says, "when we are not writing the story of this chapter, we give our minds no choice but to continue reading The last one." 

and that's that whole is an excuse thing. I thought that was such a great way to encapsulate that we are living our past experiences over and over, unless we actively and intentionally choose to try something different and sometimes suffer the consequences of it to be open to that.

Kendra Corman: 

Isn’t that the definition of insanity? Doing something over and over again and expecting a different result? 

Jenny Mitchell: 

I don't know. Right now what I'm trying to do is get my teenagers to put the dishes in the dishwasher. Like what is it about the extra step between the counter and the dishwasher? Like, tell me how I can support you to execute this task differently.

And they say, but mom, you're so good at it. But mom, like it always gets put away, right? Like be careful. That's a great example of delegating as I keep doing it for them and therefore they keep the same behavior. That is the definition of insanity right there. 

Kendra Corman: 

Yeah. There you go. Well, this has been an awesome conversation.

I really love thinking about what we need to delegate. Thinking about why we're not delegating. And looking at ourselves honestly about how much control can we give up? 

And my favorite so far, I think, is that 80 20. If I make a change, is it making an 80% improvement or a 20% improvement? And if it's 20%, does it really make a difference for me to make my mark on it?

Because I do feel like some leaders, when they delegate and you give them their edit, they have to change something, otherwise they don't feel they added any value. And it's how much value did that one thing add? I think that's a really, really good question. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

And what kind of value would you be adding to say to the person, I trust you, I don't need to see it.

Right? Imagine the kind of value you could be adding. 

Kendra Corman: 

I think that's fantastic. And I think it just, it gives people so much confidence, and trust, and respect for you that you respect them. And I think when you're trusting them to do it, they do it better.

Because otherwise, if you, if they know you're gonna change it, and I am guilty of this and I've done this numerous times, if I know you're gonna make changes anyway, you're getting a draft.

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yeah, true. Totally. 

Kendra Corman: 

You're not getting the final, because why would I spend an extra hour getting it to final if you're gonna make changes anyway? 

Jenny Mitchell: 

That's really, so how you position it with them also matters. So, is it how you label it? This is a draft. 

The other way I've done it is I've said, you know, these are the themes we talked about in this meeting. Is it good with you that I go ahead and, and complete this? 

And right with, so they get a chance to have ownership with the content, but not with the details. I mean, I don't know how many board chairs or heads of marketing exactly need to change a comma or a new placement to show that they actually know how a semicolon is used or whatever.

It's, it's not adding value at all.

Kendra Corman: 

And I think that needs to be, I love value is my favorite word because that is what we should always be striving to do. Employee, manager, business owner, to your clients, you know, creating marketing materials, social posts should always be looking to add value wherever we can.

And I think that that's so important. Before I let you go, Jenny, I do wanna ask you a question that I ask all my guests. This show is imperfect marketing, and I know we got a little off track in of marketing cuz we're talking about delegating. 

But I think delegating, again, because marketing is so big, is so key to it.

What's been one of your biggest marketing lessons learned as you've gone out on your own and have your business and everything? 

Jenny Mitchell: 

Yeah, so couple. I recently invested in marketing with my business about nine months ago, and my presence has increased significantly, particularly in LinkedIn, but also on Instagram.

I still have some presence on Instagram, and I think my biggest lesson is Everybody is not watching all the time. I had this perception that if I, you know, if I blasted things through the, it feels like I'm blasting things in the universe and that I'm out there all the time, and I'm just still shocked that people are like, oh, what are you up to these days?

Or, which programs are you running? Or People don't read. People get a sense of feeling. But so you, you are not as important to them as you think you are. And it's okay to be saying multiple things with multiple messages. I'm not saying like, buy the ticket. Buy the ticket. Buy the ticket. That's one of my pet peeves with my not-for-profits.

Right? Find something else to say. It's okay to put yourself out there. That's my biggest, imperfect. And that feels very uncomfortable too for many organizations and for many entrepreneurs. That is my message. Visibility is a gift and to keep seeking it out. 

Kendra Corman: 

I really like that because I do think we're not as important as we think we are to everybody else.

Okay, so that's, that's a key. 

Jenny Mitchell: 

That was a shocker for me. I'm kidding.

Kendra Corman: 

No, and I think it is to all of us, and we have to remind ourselves of that. And that's why you can do B plus work and get things out and move forward. Not everything has to be a plus. You know, again, progress better than perfection. 

I think they've to see something like over 13 times now, because we are inundated with so many messages. I'll look at a list of social posts that I'm getting ready to, to post, and I'll be like, I only said this once in like my two week plan here. 

And not everybody's gonna see it. Not everybody's gonna read it, and most everybody's not going to take it in until they see it more times. So how can I help reiterate that and get them to see it more times?

And that's the key. Frequency is important. Not everything has to be new and different either, because if they see the same image over and over, it gives them a visual cue and they know what it's about and they can fill in the blanks. 

Which is really cool too. So I really like that because I think people are like, just because you're tired of hearing it or saying it doesn't mean anybody else is, they're probably nowhere near.

Jenny Mitchell: 

That's so true. Just when you think you, you wanna vomit because you're saying it one more time is when they finally get it. Kendra. 

Kendra Corman: 

Exactly. No, that's so true. So true. 

Well, thank you so much for your time, Jenny. I really appreciate it. I loved your insight into delegating and the emotional aspect of it. 

Because it is so important whether you're outsourcing, or delegating internally to your team, or delegating to existing partners and things like that, it doesn't matter. You need to part with some of those tasks, and I think that that is our big thing to walk away with. Think about where you're adding value and if it, you are not adding value in that process, get out of it and add value someplace else.

Because again, 

Jenny Mitchell: 

yes ma'am, 

Kendra Corman: 

There’s limited time. In the day, in the hours and things like that. So, you wanna make sure that you're maximizing every second. 

So thank you again for tuning in to another episode of Imperfect Marketing. If you got something out of this episode, I would love it if you would rate and subscribe to the podcast, imperfect Marketing, wherever you're listening.

And if you wanna connect with Jenny, we'll have her contact information and links in the show notes along with the book that she's reading from Brianna. Right?

Jenny Mitchell: 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Kendra Corman: 

Okay. And some other links also to connect with her and follow her and her podcast, of course, underdog Leadership. And until next time, I'll see you then.